Another possible take on the events at Godric’s Hollow…
Here I dispense with the usual format in order to explore an alternative scenario linked to divination sixteen. If you haven’t yet seen divination sixteen (my version of the end of DH) and/or you want to read the synopsis in order, then take this Portkey home to avoid temptation! You have been warned. 
In My End Is My Beginning: the Phoenix & the Scar
(With acknowledgement to Mrs. Vablatsky, Senior, for some valuable insights!)
“I remember every wand I’ve ever sold, Mr Potter. Every single wand. It so happens that the phoenix whose tail feather is in your wand, gave another feather — just one other. It is very curious indeed that you should be destined for this wand when its brother — why, its brother gave you that scar.” (PS/SS5)
From Divination Sixteen: The boys travel back in time together: Ron using the watch and Harry the Time-Turner [of Lily's]. They Apparate to an upstairs bedroom at Godric’s Hollow, as Lord Voldemort is dueling with James Potter below. Harry attempts to rush to his father’s aid but is stopped by his mother. Lily, who recognizes her son, has some idea what is happening and begs them both to hide under the cloak. Voldemort appears, holding the sword of Gryffindor, taken from the dead hand of James Potter, which he intends to make into a Horcrux. Restrained by Ron, Harry witnesses his mother’s harrowing death (Voldemort offers her the chance to stand aside but she resists his Imperius curse with her eyes) and then sees Lord Voldemort about to kill the baby. From beneath the invisibility cloak, Harry somehow deflects the curse back on to Voldemort with a non-verbal spell, saving himself.
But how does he do it? As several of you have commented, the Avada Kedavra curse is supposed to be unblockable. “Not nice,” he [Moody-Crouch] said calmly. “Not pleasant. And there’s no counter curse. There’s no blocking it. Only one known person has ever survived it, and he’s sitting right in front of me.” (GOF14) We have little reason to doubt that this is the effect of the curse in conventional circumstances.
However, Harry’s circumstances are far from conventional. We know that a) he survived what should have been a fatal curse, b) he was scarred despite the fact the curse usually leaves no mark and c) he has some of Voldemort’s powers as a result. (Not to mention the fact that Hagrid believes the curse destroyed the house as well!) None of these are usual properties of the Avada Kedavra. There’s clearly more to the events of Godric’s Hollow then we’ve been told. Moreover, there were a lot of ‘firsts’ that night!
“It’s just astounding … of all the things to stop him … but how in the name of heaven did Harry survive?” “We can only guess,” said Dumbledore. “We may never know.” (PS/SS1) Contrary to some popular belief, we still don’t know! Lily’s sacrifice conferred a blood protection that saved Harry from Quirrell’s touch in PS/SS (“love as powerful as your mother’s for you leaves its own mark”), but we’ve never been told explicitly that this is why the curse rebounded. If this was so, then surely DD would have said as much? On the contrary, JKR has worked hard to sustain an air of mystery throughout all six books. She has refused to speculate on the connection between Harry and Voldemort – (surely the key to everything?) – and is on record as saying (in March 2004) that “the crucial and central question” of the series is how both Harry and Voldemort survived the Killing Curse “and if I answered it there would be hardly any point writing books six and seven … so I won’t!” Book 6 explained how Voldemort had survived (the Horcruxes) but it seems we’ll have to wait until Book 7 to discover how Harry became ‘the Boy Who Lived’.
“Exactly,” said Dumbledore. “Harry’s wand and Voldemort’s wand share cores. Each of them contains a feather from the tail of the same phoenix. This phoenix, in fact,” he added, and he pointed at the scarlet-and-gold bird, perching peacefully on Harry’s knee.
“My wand’s feather came from Fawkes?”Harry said, amazed.
“Yes,” said Dumbledore. “Mr. Ollivander wrote to tell me you had bought the second wand, the moment you left his shop four years ago.” (GOF3)
Apart from the Prophecy, the most obvious symbols of the connection between Harry & Voldemort are the pair of wands, Fawkes the Phoenix and Harry’s scar. We know that these items are related (after a fashion), but might all have been present on that miraculous night at Godric’s Hollow? Well, yes, possibly. And the story that connects them might just explain Harry’s first defeat of Voldemort … (without recourse to the Harry-as-Horcrux theory, which divides fandom so sharply down the middle!)
a) I’m starting with the moment in the first film, in which Movie-Voldemort (?) points his wand in baby Harry’s face. (It interests me that JKR wrote this ‘flashback’ scene – which is tightly controlled and severely curtailed – choosing to end at this point!) I’m also imagining the older Harry to be present (with Ron) under the Invisibility Cloak. He is standing just behind baby Harry’s cot, with his wand raised to perform a non-verbal spell.
b) A jet of green light issued from Voldemort’s wand just as a jet of red light blasted from Harry’s – they met in midair – and suddenly Harry’s wand was vibrating as though an electric charge were surging through it; his hand seized up around it; he couldn’t have released it if he’d wanted to – and a narrow beam of light connected the two wands, neither red nor green, but bright, deep gold. (GOF34) The golden ‘beam of light’ linking the wands, interests me as a physical manifestation of the mysterious bond between Harry & Voldemort. In fact, could this be the origin of the bond? (Hold that thought!) Compare: “The curse that failed to kill you seems to have forged some kind of connection between you and the Dark Lord.” (OOtP24) (But we know that Avada Kedavra does not normally leave a mark.)
c) If something like the Priori Incantatem effect did occur that night, Voldemort would have no idea what had happened. (Even supposing that being ripped from your body has no effect on your recollection of events immediately beforehand!) All he would have seen is a golden beam of light from an invisible source which he associated with his attempt to kill Harry Potter.
d) And then an unearthly and beautiful sound filled the air. … It was coming from every thread of the light-spun web vibrating around Harry and Voldemort. It was a sound Harry recognized, though he had heard it only once before in his life: phoenix song. (GOF34) It is worth noting that Phoenix song has an effect on the listeners, ‘increasing the courage of the pure of heart and striking fear into the hearts of the impure’ (FB) … I have already hypothesized that Fawkes was present (later that night) to heal the wound in Harry’s scar. Might this explain how/why he came to be there?
e) As the closest bead of light moved nearer to Harry’s wand tip, the wood beneath his fingers grew so hot he feared it would burst into flame. (GOF34) Interesting … so the beam of light has the essence of flame – Phoenix fire, perhaps? And Harry’s ‘lightning-bolt scar’ resembles a burn… So might the scar have been created if baby Harry was caught in the crossfire between older Harry & Voldemort?
f) To clarify: what I’m hypothesizing is not a straight reprise of ‘Priori Incantatem’ from GOF, but a threefold magical connection between baby Harry, older Harry and Voldemort. This is what caused the curse to rebound, IMHO. He concentrated every last particle of his mind upon forcing the bead back toward Voldemort, his ears full of phoenix song, his eyes furious, fixed … and slowly, very slowly, the beads quivered to a halt, and then, just as slowly, they began to move the other way … and it was Voldemort’s wand that was vibrating extra-hard now … Voldemort who looked astonished, and almost fearful … (GOF34) It is unusual to see Voldemort fearful – could this moment in GOF have echoed something he’d experienced before?
g) The phoenix had fluttered to the floor. It was resting its beautiful head against Harry’s injured leg, and thick, pearly tears were falling form its eyes onto the wound… (GOF36) The wound in Harry’s forehead has already healed by the time that Hagrid brings Harry to Privet Drive in PS1. For me, it makes sense for Fawkes to heal the wound, which the Phoenix fire had caused(?).
h) Furthermore, it is interesting that Harry Potter regularly experiences a ‘burning pain’ in his scar. Might this suggest the scar’s fiery origins, as well as Harry’s connection to Voldemort?
i) Another unsolved mystery from that night is how the Potters’ house in Godric’s Hollow came to be destroyed. Interestingly, the HPL offers an answer, which seems to relate quite well to this theory.
Quote: Assuming that we can trust Hagrid’s interpretation of events [not always a good idea! Ed.], we can see that the curse used against Harry caused the destruction of house in Godric’s Hollow. [Well OK, that's a fair assumption from Hagrid, who was first on the scene afterwards.] To be precise, the massive energy released in the misfiring of the spell must be what caused such devastation. We do get the sense that the energy of spells causes physical damage to inanimate objects from the descriptions of battles elsewhere in the canon. However, this must have been an exceptional case to destroy an entire house. … What caused the spell to misfire? Just the words of a prophecy wouldn’t be enough to protect Harry. After all, it could just as well have been Neville. Is there perhaps something like the Priori Incantatem effect between Harry and Voldemort? What causes this? What is the common factor between them … which made this spell misfire so spectacularly? [In their opinion (and mine)] it was the pre-existing common core in the wands.
So how does it all end? Well, I love the idea of ending at the beginning (to enable Shacklebolt to formally declare ‘Harry Potter Day’ at the end of the series!) It might seem that the whole point of rejecting the ‘Harry as Horcrux’ theory ( I wouldn’t rule this out completely, btw – we still don’t know exactly how Horcrux creation works!) would be to save Harry’s life, but sadly I think he is doomed by the Laws of Genre & the edict of JKR … the pen, it seems, is mightier than the wand! The one who redeems the world seldom lives to inherit its riches. IMHO, the older Harry will die, saving Ron and defeating Voldemort (using Snape’s spell ‘for enemies’ – so some poetic justice for Snape!).
From Divination Sixteen: As Voldemort is ripped from his body, the house explodes. At this moment, the current Voldemort arrives to challenge Harry. He knows that he cannot touch the baby since he required Harry’s blood to regenerate (hence Dumbledore’s gleam of triumph). The older Harry and Ron must now face Voldemort in a final duel. Throughout this last battle, Harry interposes his body between Ron and Voldemort, determined to protect his friend. … As Voldemort raises his wand to perform the Avada Kedavra, which he believes will make him invincible, Harry shoots Snape’s Sectumsempra curse at Voldemort. The Dark Lord staggers backward in astonishment then horror, as his own curse hits Harry who dies triumphantly [knowing he has accomplished his mission] … At last Voldemort must taste the bitterness of death, his second body melting in agony. Ron kneels wordlessly besides the corpse of his best friend. Nearby, he hears a phoenix singing and a baby crying. … Ron realizes that their actions have enabled baby Harry to grow up and fulfil his destiny, like a phoenix from the ashes. He promises Harry that the world will not forget him and waits with the baby until he hears an approaching motorcycle. Ron returns to the present with Harry’s body as Sirius and Hagrid arrive to find Lily & James dead and Harry apparently alone in the ruins. (Fawkes has returned to Dumbledore.) The novel ends with Sirius and Hagrid, full of pain and wonder, gazing down at the baby with the lightning shaped scar.
(NB: Ma fin est mon commencement was the personal motto of Mary, Queen of Scots. T.S. Eliot uses both In my beginning is my end and In my end is my beginning in his poem ‘East Coker’ from the Four Quartets.)
“You all know that on the night I lost my powers and my body, I tried to kill him. His mother died in the attempt to save him – and unwittingly provided him with a protection I admit I had not foreseen … I could not touch the boy” – GOF
The above clearly states, Lily’s sacrifice gave Harry Potter the ultimate protection. The above theory go against what Lord Voldemort himself declared that his curse was rebounded by Lily’s unwitting protection.
Voldemort raised one of his long white fingers , and put it very close to Harry’s cheek. “His mother left upon him the traces of her sacrifice … this is old magic, I should have remembered it, I was foolish to overlook it … but no matter. I can touch him now”
Harry felt the cold tip of the long white finger touch him, and thought his head would burst with the pain.
Voldemort laughed softly in his ear, then took the finger away, and continued addressing the Death Eaters. “I miscalculated, my friends, I admit it. My curse was deflected by the woman’s foolish sacrifice, and it rebounded upon me. Aaah … pain beyond pain, my friends; nothing could have prepared me for it. I was ripped from my body, I was less than spirit, less than the meanest ghost … but still, I was alive. What I was, even I do not know … I, who have gone further than anybody along the path that leads to immortality.
…
-Goblet Of Fire
clearly Lord Voldemort cursed using Avada Kedavra and he himself believes he was ripped out of his body because of Lily’s ultimate sacrifice for her baby… (Unlike the theory which says second Harry using Protego to repel the curse or using his wand against that of Lord Voldemort ending in Priori Incatatem …)
Hi anonymous,
Thanks for your feedback. Will answer you properly tomorrow, but the short answer is that I don’t believe it is quite so clear-cut.
I believe that Voldemort’s account of his own demise is not entirely reliable – it comes from Harry’s account to Riddle (in COS), which in turn comes from Dumbledore’s (sort of) account to Harry (in PS/SS), with significant distortions!
We can trace a logical progression from PS/SS through to GOF, but ultimately it all comes down to Dumbledore’s words at the beginning: “It’s just astounding … of all the things to stop him … but how in the name of heaven did Harry survive?” “We can only guess,” said Dumbledore. “We may never know.” (PS/SS1)
Watch this space for more!
OK, here goes!
1.) “An’ then – an’ this is the real myst’ry of the thing – he tried to kill you, too … No one ever lived after he decided ter kill ‘em, no one except you, an’ he’d killed some o’ the best witches and wizards of the age – the McKinnons, the Bones, the Prewetts – an’ you was only a baby, an’ you lived.” (Hagrid to Harry, PS/SS4) Firstly, JKR is careful to emphasize that Harry’s survival is mysterious. It’s interesting that she didn’t *need* to take this route – if it was all down to Lily, then why not have the wizarding world honour her from the start? But no, from the very beginning of PS/SS, we’re encouraged to think that it was *Harry* who (somehow) stopped Voldemort that night. “No one knows why, or how, but they’re saying that when he couldn’t kill Harry Potter, Voldemort’s power somehow broke – and that’s why he’s gone.” (PS/SS1) When McGonagall asks, even Dumbledore has no answer: “It’s just astounding … of all the things to stop him … but how in the name of heaven did Harry survive?” “We can only guess,” said Dumbledore. “We may never know.” (PS/SS1) This is crucial, IMHO, since Dumbledore is Harry’s most important source for the events at Godric’s Hollow.
2.) But what of Lily’s sacrifice & the importance of love? I would *never* want to undervalue such an important theme … but IMHO, the protection conveyed by Lily’s altruistic death is first seen at the *end* of PS/SS when it saves Harry from Quirrell. “But why couldn’t Quirrell touch me?” “He didn’t realize that love as powerful as your mother’s for you leaves its own mark … It is in your very skin.” (PS17) Later, it is confirmed that Dumbledore knew of this “ancient magic” from the beginning: “I am speaking, of course, of the fact that your mother died to save you. She gave you a lingering protection he never expected, a protection that flows in your veins to this day. I put my trust, therefore, in your mother’s blood. I delivered you to her sister, her only remaining relative.” (OOtP37) What’s interesting is that Dumbledore was already aware of the fact (& the importance) of Lily’s sacrifice in (the backstory of) PS/SS, but evidently *didn’t* believe it was responsible for Harry’s first survival. “We may never know.” (PS/SS1)
3.) Neither Quirrell!Mort nor Riddle!Mort seems to know exactly what happened at Godric’s Hollow; though Quirrell!Mort tells Harry that “your mother needn’t have died … she was trying to protect you”. (One might think that Lily Evans-Potter can’t be the only witch/wizard to have died for another, yet JKR has confirmed that Harry’s survival is unique.) Riddle!Mort wants to know, “how is it that a baby with no extraordinary magical talent managed to defeat the greatest wizard of all time?” (COS 17) He also refers to Harry’s subsequent defeat of Quirrell!Mort. “Twice – in *your* past, in *my* future – we have met. And twice I have failed to kill you. *How did you survive?*” Harry’s answer is nicely ambiguous. “No one knows why you lost your powers when you attacked me,” said Harry abruptly. “I don’t know myself. But I know why you couldn’t *kill* me. Because my mother died to save me.” I believe that the first part of this answer refers to Harry’s first defeat of Voldemort (at Godric’s Hollow), while the last part refers to the second defeat (of Quirrell!Mort). Dumbledore has certainly given Harry no reason to think that his mother’s death explains why the curse rebounded. But Voldemort gets this wrong – like most evil overlords (in fantasy) he fatally underestimates his enemies. “So. Your mother died to save you. Yes, that’s a powerful counter-charm. I can see now – there’s nothing special about you, after all.” (But we know *that’s* not true, right? In theology & literature, the devil is a liar. There’s no reason to take Voldemort’s word about anything.)
4.) So when Voldemort is speaking in GOF (the part you’ve quoted), he is taking Harry as his source, but IMHO, he is twisting Harry’s words to fit his own more comfortable interpretation. “You all know that on the night I lost my powers and my body, I tried to kill him. His mother died in the attempt to save him — and unwittingly provided him with a protection I admit I had not foreseen…. I could not touch the boy. [This much is all true, IMHO.] His mother left upon him the traces of her sacrifice …. This is old magic, I should have remembered it, I was foolish to overlook it … but no matter, I can touch him now.” (GOF33) I have no argument with any of that, but: “I miscalculated, my friends, I admit it. My curse was deflected by the woman’s foolish sacrifice, and it rebounded upon myself.” Now, IMHO, Voldemort is making assumptions. He doesn’t *know* what happened – no-one knows! We’ve been told that nothing like this had ever happened before.
5.) To conclude, I think it’s worth noting that the authorial voice has never endorsed Voldemort’s interpretation. Rather, Harry’s survival has always been presented as an enigmatic miracle with no obvious explanation. ‘Harry’s parents had died in Voldemort’s attack, but Harry had escaped with his lightning scar, and somehow – nobody understood why – Voldemort’s powers had been destroyed the instant he had failed to kill Harry.’ (COS1) ‘Voldemort had then turned his wand on Harry; he had performed the curse that had disposed of many full-grown witches and wizards in his steady rise to power — and, incredibly, it had not worked. Instead of killing the small boy, the curse had rebounded upon Voldemort.’ (GOF2) I’m looking forward to the true explanation in Book 7 – and I’d love to think that it somehow involves time-travel, thus restoring the honour of Voldemort’s first defeat to (an older) Harry Potter!
thankyou! btw – twas moi who informed u about point 4 (soz, had to slip that in!4got to put my name in.)
Ah, I see you already had the idea that James had the sword at Godric’s Hollow. I got that from one of the moderators over at mugglenet and thought it was absolutely brilliant.
The idea of Fawkes healing baby Harry is fun, and I loved your comment about the book ending with the formal announcement of Harry Potter Day (do you think we will find out there is a Albus Dumbledore Day from his defeat of Grindelwald?)
I’m not completely convinced Harry will die – I’m rather wondering if Hermione gets lost early (someone mentioned her mirroring Fleur in the maze) and so Ron sacrifices himself and becomes as famous as his 11 year old heart wished – completely outclassing his brothers.
Fun read!
You know thats some very interesting stuff there. No offense but i hope you’re dead wrong. I just can’t imagine Harry being a horcrux or that he time travels to save his young self. It would be very confusing trying to figure out how that would be possibe. It was confusing enough in PoA. I don’t think we need more twists in this book. We have Snape,Voldemort/Harry,the Horcuxes and what they are. I just hope is a straight forward book without time travelling. But I love your interpretation of the previous books and what they might mean for Deathly Hallows. I think your right about the Snape-Lily relationship it probably plays a huge part and that explains a lot so Thanks. Just can’t wait for the last book.
Regards,
Cal
JKR named three people, Harry, Ron, and Hermione, that she would like to have dinner with, and then paused before naming the fourth saying she wasn’t sure if she could invite the dead. That makes me think Harry, Ron and Hermione all live. A bit simple, I admit, but that’s how I like it.
But surely Harry *had* to be her first choice, whether he lives or dies? (It would have been very odd to leave him out, IMHO.)
It’s a good point and I have wondered about this too … but then JKR’s been so careful (for years now) to keep Harry’s fate in the balance that I don’t think she would have blown it like this in an interview! (Plus she did say, she’d take Harry to “apologize to him.”) Ah well, what do I know? :–)
Here’s the quote …
Soledad O’Brien: I’m going to pose the final question to you and I’d like all three of you to take a stab at it. You can do it in any order that you would like. If you were to have dinner with any five characters from any of your books — take a moment to think about it — who would you invite, and why would they be on your list? Any order.
Stephen King: Any five characters, from any of my books? Honey, I’m eating alone. No I mean … you answer (points at JK Rowling).
John Irving: You could just invite all the dead ones and then they wouldn’t come (crowd laughs).
Stephen King: I would eat with Harry, Hermione and Ron, and….
Soledad O’Brien: No, no, no. Your own books.
Stephen King: And Owen. I don’t know. I can think of other people’s characters I’d eat with. And I can think of other people’s character’s I’d eat (crowd laughs hysterically). Somebody else. Somebody else answer that.
John Irving: You go (referring to JK Rowling).
JK Rowling: Well I’d take Harry, to apologize to him (crowd laughs). Um, I’d have to take Harry, Ron and Hermione.
Stephen King: Sure.
JK Rowling: I would – this is – (crown shouts suggestions).
Stephen King: Hagrid, take Hagrid.
JK Rowling: See, I know who’s actually dead.
Stephen King: Pretend you can take them anyways.
JK Rowling: Pretend I can take anyone? Well then I would definitely take Dumbledore. I’d take Dumbledore, Harry, Ron, Hermione…and.. (crowd shouts characters) um, Hagrid. I’d take Hagrid, yeah.
P.S. I think (sadly) that she might have been giving us a clue about Hagrid: http://book7.co.uk/thirteen/
Good points. You’ve obviously thought about it way more than I, what with the website and all. Lots of really good work. I hope you’re wrong about a lot of it, but you’ve certainly done your homework. I think he made a horcrux with Gryffindor’s sword when he killed James…maybe. Cheers.
If Older Harry killed 2nd Voldermort, wouldn’t Sirius and Hagrid have seen the body? No where in your description did you say what happened to VDs body after the Sectumsempra curse hit him. He wouldn’t have just dissappeared…
Well, I did say, ‘his second body melting in agony’.
I think it depends what kind of death you envisage for current Voldemort (not a very pleasant topic!)
His new body is made from such a hideous concoction of elements (unicorn blood, Nagini’s snake venom, bone from his father, flesh from Wormtail, and blood from Harry) that I imagine his death as being very far from ordinary … plus, the fact that he has ‘a maimed and diminished soul’.
Before the rebirthing potion: Voldemort ‘had the shape of a crouched human child, except that Harry had never seen anything less like a child. It was hairless and scaly-looking, a dark, raw, reddish black. Its arms and legs were thin and feeble, and its face – no child alive ever had a face like that – flat and snakelike, with gleaming red eyes’ (GF32).
Afterwards, he is described as: ‘a man, tall and skeletally thin.’ His face was ‘whiter than a skull, with wide, livid scarlet eyes and a nose that was as flat as a snake’s with slits for nostrils’ (GF32).
‘Voldemort looked away from Harry and began examining his own body. His hands were like large, pale spiders; his long white fingers caressed his own chest, his arms, his face; the red eyes, whose pupils were slits, like a cat’s, gleamed still more brightly through the darkness’ (GF33).
Interestingly, JKR is on record as saying: “The one that I wondered whether I was going to be able to get past the editors was the physical condition of Voldemort before he went into the cauldron, do you remember? He was kind of fetal. I felt an almost visceral distaste for what I had conjured up, but there’s a reason it was in there and you will see that.” It seems a fair assumption that her “reason” relates to Voldemort’s eventual demise …
So what would happen if this ‘creature’ (I hesitate to call him a man) is hit by Sectumsempra: the spell that ‘cuts forever’?
An ungodly mess, IMHO, as he returns to his constituent parts. Certainly, not a normal corpse, IMHO.
After all, the spell had a terrible effect on Malfoy (before Snape healed him):
‘Blood spurted from Malfoy’s face and chest as though he had been slashed with an invisible sword. He staggered backwards and collapsed on to the waterlogged floor with a great splash, his wand falling from his limp right hand. … Slipping and staggering, Harry got to his feet and plunged towards Malfoy, whose face was now shining scarlet, his white hands scrabbling at his blood-soaked chest.’ (HBP24)
Sounds like he would leave a real mess for hagrid to find then:)
ps you say IMHO to much lol
ur insane. harry lives.
This is one of the most outstanding specualtion i have ever been through.It seems like you have read the seventh book already and this text is just the interpretation in your own words.this is wonderful.Great job indeed!!!!
Hmm… we already know that Harry is an extremely powerful wizard in his own right, right? Continuing from your Baby Harry, Harry, Voldemort bond idea, and also the Priori Incantatem idea (whereby the power between the two wands is more-or-less balanced – we see that neither gains the upper hand in the Graveyard), the combined magical power of older Harry and baby Harry could have been enough to gain the upper hand against Voldemort – and diminish his past form.
Dumbledore and Professor McGonagall bent forward over the bundle of
blankets. Inside, just visible, was a baby boy, fast asleep. Under a
tuft of jet-black hair over his forehead they could see a curiously
shaped cut, like a bolt of lightning.
“Is that where -?” whispered Professor McGonagall.
“Yes,” said Dumbledore. “He’ll have that scar forever.”
“Couldn’t you do something about it, Dumbledore?”
“Even if I could, I wouldn’t. Scars can come in handy. I have one myself
above my left knee that is a perfect map of the London Underground. Well
– give him here, Hagrid — we’d better get this over with.”
This conversation seems to give indication to a fact that dumbledore thought the scar to be harmless…..if the “dumbledore faced horcrux before” theory is to be believed then dumbledore would have definitely sensed the “scar as a horcrux” cause as in HBP “magic always leaves a trace” and this is evil magic with a part of voldmort’s sole…….
comment.
oops thats soul….
OK, I hate to be a complainer, but I think you are making some mistakes in your assumptions. First in your assumption that when Dumbledore says “we may never know.” that it means he actually does not know. It has become very clear that Dumbledore, as trusting as he is, does not share secrets lightly. In fact we know from Dumbledore himself (HBP) that, until Harry tells his friends, “There are only two people in the entire world that know the full contents of the prophecy.” When McGonnegal asks how Harry survives, Dumbledore is not going to just come out and tell her. 1. that would pretty much ruin the whole story, and 2. Dumbledore already has a plan to only reveal the information to Harry when he is old enough. So when he says “We may never know.” I believe that he is covering up that he already knows, or at least suspects, bc he does not want to share the information. The second assumption I have a problem with is that in GOF you seem to think that voldemort gets his information about his first downfall from Harry. It seems to me that you are referring to when Harry told Riddle in COS about how his mother’s sacrifice protected him. When the diary horcrux is destroyed in COS any knowledge that Riddle gained while he was corporeal was lost. Voldemort does not get that information from Harry, and he has no way of knowing what Riddle heard from Harry in the COS. Also in PS/SS Harry does not explain to quirrel/voldemort about his mother’s sacrifice bc at that point in time he does not even know about it himself. So in GOF when Voldemort tells the death eaters that this is why the curse rebounds, we have no indication that what he says is not the truth. He himself is incredibly knowledgable about all sorts of magic, possibly knowing almost as much as Dumbledore if not more in certain areas. I also believe that JKR is not going to really support any ideas at this point bc it could ruin book 7 by giving too much information away. JKR, like Dumbledore, guards her secrets very carefully so that she does not ruin the story for her readers. If she openly supported the idea that the curse was rebounded bc of Lily’s sacrifice then it would instantly end much speculation by fans, which I think she enjoys.
this is kind of stupid and while its smart, this is just overreading
i was really wonderin wat IMHO stood for so i searched it and this came up so can anyone tell me what IMHO stands for and i read this coz it was interestin i think most of the theories r unlikely i like them but i like the 1 errr well 1 of them 2 do wit i dunno anyway plz tell me wat IMHO stands for
(IMHO = netspeak for ‘in my humble opinion’ – apologies to anyone else I’ve confused – I’ve been told before on here that I use it too much!)
Good point re. DD and the scar, talonfang – as I’ve said before I’m not completely convinced that the scar is a Horcrux (largely because of the issue you cite – though DD has admitted that he can make emotional mistakes, perhaps he was in denial).
Okay, Keith, some penetrating analysis there … you’ve given me much to think about!
However, I would still defend my position on a couple of things:
I would agree that DD does keep his secrets close to his chest – however, I still maintain that the very fact of DD keeping this information secret (if he did) implies that there was a secret to keep. And Lily’s loving sacrifice would not have been a secret, IMHO, since it seems to have been fairly well known that she died protecting her son. So where’s the mystery? DD could safely have told McGonagall.
On your second point, you are quite right to say that whatever Harry told diary!Riddle *won’t* have been passed on to Voldemort (who didn’t know about the diary’s destruction until after his return). I shouldn’t have suggested otherwise. There is some confusion here (not all of my making) however – since diary!Riddle somehow knows all about Voldemort’s subsequent fate, except the reason for his downfall. And Voldemort in Book 4 seems to have deduced (from somewhere) that it was as Harry said. (Presumably this is as much as the wizarding world understands of that night.) But my basic point is that while (unlike Voldemort) I value Lily’s sacrifice, I also (unlike Voldemort) can’t believe that there was nothing special about Harry after all…